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Post by silentflames on Apr 1, 2023 4:12:14 GMT
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Post by Kimbo on Apr 1, 2023 5:36:35 GMT
Literally 1000000 x times better, needs a little more trimming in the end though.
I would much much rather listen to this version.
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Post by Zalman on Apr 1, 2023 8:01:17 GMT
I don't agree with some of the cuts but it does prove that the song flows better without the slow pre-chorus.
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Post by filthyheart on Apr 1, 2023 8:11:04 GMT
I fucking love the first time he starts singing. "Beating down on a wrath of man, shot down" so awesome
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Post by jorn on Apr 1, 2023 9:44:06 GMT
Something about the groove in the verses feels so Load to me. This song kind of makes me think "what if they tried to really write a thrash song in 1995". I agree. I think it is because of the production and the tones. Kinda like the parking lot riffs |
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Post by Kimbo on Apr 1, 2023 10:35:23 GMT
So annoying that this could have been so much better with just a little editing.
It flows so much better
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Post by silentflames on Apr 1, 2023 10:55:36 GMT
So annoying that this could have been so much better with just a little editing. It flows so much better This can be applied to most songs since St. Anger. |
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Post by Prometheus426 on Apr 1, 2023 11:30:07 GMT
Yeah this edit is better, reminds me of HW in this form. |
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Post by SicJes on Apr 1, 2023 13:13:03 GMT
Yeah this edit is better, reminds me of HW in this form. It probably started out as simple and great as this and they sat around and thought "let's take it off a cliff over here and over there" and then tacked on all the bloat. 72 is good\alright, I'd compare it to a song like Judas Kiss, lots of cool parts that you want to hear but have to get through the muck to get there. I love Judas Kiss, but no way could it work as the title track and opener. I think this will be an album full of "I love that riff or this part" as opposed to "I love this song" |
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Post by silentflames on Apr 1, 2023 14:00:46 GMT
Agreed, and Judas > 72
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Post by SicJes on Apr 1, 2023 14:27:22 GMT
Sorry, which one do you like better? That <> symbol always confused me. I learned in school that the crocodile always wants to eat the greater item, but some people use it like the point of an arrow pointing to their preference. |
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Post by silentflames on Apr 1, 2023 14:40:28 GMT
Sorry, which one do you like better? That <> symbol always confused me. I learned in school that the crocodile always wants to eat the greater item, but some people use it like the point of an arrow pointing to their preference.  |
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Post by GuybrushX McMurphy on Apr 1, 2023 17:19:59 GMT
- Kirk sent 20-30 improvised solos for Lars and Greg to edit
That might be the worst decision in the band's entire history.
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Post by Awake on Apr 1, 2023 17:57:37 GMT
Metallica has always been about weird tempo changes and transitions. With the new music it's just more obvious.
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tribeleader
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Post by tribeleader on Apr 1, 2023 18:26:47 GMT
I liked the idea of 72 seasons but it could've been better (like all the other new singles). Loud af bass in the chorus is awesome tho.
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Post by Wolfish on Apr 1, 2023 18:35:20 GMT
Fortunately we have this forum to discuss the band without someone jumping on our throats for being a little bit critical, which happens a lot on the official forums lately.
As much as I enjoy the four singles, some more than others, nothing has blown me away yet. I'm still hyped and really looking forward to finding some gems there, songs that can hold their own with the classic material, as was the case with some of the songs on DM and Hardwired.
But the point of this post is about one thing that has been boggling my mind the most ever since St. Anger, stock guitar solos or hit-hat overuse aside: the band seems to have lost its mojo when it comes to arrangements. How on Earth has Metallica -- known for stellar compositions, among other attributes -- become so unfocused with its writing? What's the reason? It's really hard to know.
I'm not judging here, just trying to put an explanation on paper. Could it be that James, for sanity reasons after his first rehab stint, doesn't want to be the perfectionist and control freak he used to be and has let Lars steer the ship? Lars has become lazier and lazier (*), his focus seems to be everywhere but on the actual music (Rob's recent interview for So What! alludes to the fact that it was him who actually convinced Lars to start writing new stuff)? Is Lars'(over)use of Pro-Tools to compose music to blame? Are they in need of a producer or someone in management, brave enough, who can still tell them their truths?
St. Anger was the epitome of bad arrangements; they did better with DM (except for Line, Cyanide, and Beyond Magnetic); Hardwired saw them improve a bit more. I was expecting this new album to finally recapture their ability at writing cohesive songs. It's like they haven't been able to shake off that "cut-and-paste" feel for good, whether it's the transitions or the splicing together of great riffs/ parts that belong to different moods. Sorry, I'm not a musician so excuse my lack of jargon.
I don't think the answers to those questions can thoroughly explain the issue, though.
(*) I would've thougth his eldest son playing the drums would've sparked a flame under his ass to go explore other styles or fall in love with the instrument again. He's been playin pretty well live, though.
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Post by Prometheus426 on Apr 1, 2023 19:00:45 GMT
Fortunately we have this forum to discuss the band without someone jumping on our throats for being a little bit critical, which happens a lot on the official forums lately. As much as I enjoy the four singles, some more than others, nothing has blown me away yet. I'm still hyped and really looking forward to finding some gems there, songs that can hold their own with the classic material, as was the case with some of the songs on DM and Hardwired. But the point of this post is about one thing that has been boggling my mind the most ever since St. Anger, stock guitar solos or hit-hat overuse aside: the band seems to have lost its mojo when it comes to arrangements. How on Earth has Metallica -- known for stellar compositions, among other attributes -- become so unfocused with its writing? What's the reason? It's really hard to know. I'm not judging here, just trying to put an explanation on paper. Could it be that James, for sanity reasons after his first rehab stint, doesn't want to be the perfectionist and control freak he used to be and has let Lars steer the ship? Lars has become lazier and lazier (*), his focus seems to be everywhere but on the actual music (Rob's recent interview for So What! alludes to the fact that it was him who actually convinced Lars to start writing new stuff)? Is Lars'(over)use of Pro-Tools to compose music to blame? Are they in need of a producer or someone in management, brave enough, who can still tell them their truths? St. Anger was the epitome of bad arrangements; they did better with DM (except for Line, Cyanide, and Beyond Magnetic); Hardwired saw them improve a bit more. I was expecting this new album to finally recapture their ability at writing cohesive songs. It's like they haven't been able to shake off that "cut-and-paste" feel for good, whether it's the transitions or the splicing together of great riffs/ parts that belong to different moods. Sorry, I'm not a musician so excuse my lack of jargon. I don't think the answers to those questions can thoroughly explain the issue, though. (*) I would've thougth his eldest son playing the drums would've sparked a flame under his ass to go explore other styles or fall in love with the instrument again. He's been playin pretty well live, though. The new songs almost have a demo feel about them in terms of the need for editing. My expectations for the rest of the album are not that high to be honest, as long as there are a few better tracks. |
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Post by SicJes on Apr 1, 2023 22:26:59 GMT
Fortunately we have this forum to discuss the band without someone jumping on our throats for being a little bit critical, which happens a lot on the official forums lately. As much as I enjoy the four singles, some more than others, nothing has blown me away yet. I'm still hyped and really looking forward to finding some gems there, songs that can hold their own with the classic material, as was the case with some of the songs on DM and Hardwired. But the point of this post is about one thing that has been boggling my mind the most ever since St. Anger, stock guitar solos or hit-hat overuse aside: the band seems to have lost its mojo when it comes to arrangements. How on Earth has Metallica -- known for stellar compositions, among other attributes -- become so unfocused with its writing? What's the reason? It's really hard to know. I'm not judging here, just trying to put an explanation on paper. Could it be that James, for sanity reasons after his first rehab stint, doesn't want to be the perfectionist and control freak he used to be and has let Lars steer the ship? Lars has become lazier and lazier (*), his focus seems to be everywhere but on the actual music (Rob's recent interview for So What! alludes to the fact that it was him who actually convinced Lars to start writing new stuff)? Is Lars'(over)use of Pro-Tools to compose music to blame? Are they in need of a producer or someone in management, brave enough, who can still tell them their truths? St. Anger was the epitome of bad arrangements; they did better with DM (except for Line, Cyanide, and Beyond Magnetic); Hardwired saw them improve a bit more. I was expecting this new album to finally recapture their ability at writing cohesive songs. It's like they haven't been able to shake off that "cut-and-paste" feel for good, whether it's the transitions or the splicing together of great riffs/ parts that belong to different moods. Sorry, I'm not a musician so excuse my lack of jargon. I don't think the answers to those questions can thoroughly explain the issue, though. (*) I would've thougth his eldest son playing the drums would've sparked a flame under his ass to go explore other styles or fall in love with the instrument again. He's been playin pretty well live, though. I'll get flamed for this, but it is not my usual line of thinking. Maybe James and Lars just suck. Think about it. And Justice for All is considered pretty bloated with bad production, Cliff was out. Then with the Black album, they had a goal, wright straight forward pop songs in a metal style, and it worked and Bob produced the fuck out of it, setting the future bar impossible to uphold. Then you had Load and Reload following the exact same arrangement patterns for 80% of the material (cough cough King Sandman) but the issue with bloat was presented with having a double album and no restraint of cutting out the garbage down to one presentable album and bonus EP. St Anger, same kind of problems with added emotional distress and searching for a place in the new world of metal. DM stands strong IMO, but sufferers with the bloat issue, they had the idea to at least cut out the 4 weakest songs, but then went out and actually sold them as a poorly produced EP😂 oh, and Lulu happened somewhere in there too. Hardwired was 50% filler trash for the most part. So maybe Metallica really just suck and we've all collectively drank the Kool aid. |
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Post by BMus1 on Apr 1, 2023 23:40:32 GMT
James and Lars don't suck, they're just flawed like every other musician and person. And it's pretty clear the benefit that they get from having assistance and direction, whether it be from Cliff or Bob Rock or anyone else. The human element is a part of it too though; would they rather be making music in their handcrafted, ideal environment at HQ with their handpicked team, or with a team of people they don't work with as well in the hopes of making a thrash classic at age 60?
That magazine interview summed it up perfectly. It's not a bad thing to admit Metallica are in their prime anymore, and I still love see them enjoy making music. Would I like to see them switch it up more on the next record even more instead of doing Hardwired 2/DM 3? Absolutely, but I do think that time will come with more age and some slowing down. Paul McCartney made a couple of his greatest albums in his late 60s.
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Post by Ruflux on Apr 1, 2023 23:59:55 GMT
I'm not a fan of how overly long the song feels as-is nor of how certain parts inexplicably drag on until they change to a different part with no warning (a modern Iron Maiden staple - Steve Harris was never known for writing good transitions, but Metallica's 80s output is foundationally built on seamless transitions so it stings a bit more here), but this just sounds like The Shortest Straw in 1996; i.e. too heavily chopped up and not sounding like a cohesive song since it's unnaturally altered and shortened, hence why The Shortest Straw as played in 1997 was noticeably longer. |
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Post by metman18 on Apr 2, 2023 3:21:26 GMT
Man I wish they would stop with the third verses, 1/100 songs needs those, it gets repetitive. They should have gone from solo section and straight into the pre chorus or chorus. That transition into the third verse is so bad, one of their worst ever. I really like the fast bits, they really work, I wish they would have shortened the song and just kept up the pace Yeah I’m pretty sure I rolled my eyes hard after that transition into the third verse. It’s really bad and really took me out of the song at that point. |
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Post by silentflames on Apr 2, 2023 5:01:56 GMT
I wish 72 Seasons took off after the solo like One and not land on the chorus.
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Post by Kimbo on Apr 2, 2023 5:38:22 GMT
I wish 72 Seasons took off after the solo like One and not land on the chorus. Agreed. When you hit the 5/6 min Mark you really need to introduce something new and fresh. Otherwise shut it down. There’s absolutely no need for 2/3 extra min with verse and chorus. Their autopilot song formula has become so uninteresting. At least Darkness introduces something slightly different in the outro, 72 just goes on with the same shit. I’ve already lost complete interest in hearing that song from start to finish. The materiel in there warrants a 5 min song, not a second more. |
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Post by GuybrushX McMurphy on Apr 2, 2023 6:09:15 GMT
Seamless transitions were among their greatest strengths on the early albums, while now they're among their biggest weaknesses for some reason; especially when it comes to transitioning back to the original core of the song after an extended interlude. Like in Master of Puppets, where the clean interlude is basically a completely different universe than the entire song up until that point, yet they manage to gradually build it back to the main part seamlessly and naturally, and make it sound like it was exactly meant to be that way and just couldn't work differently. They always came up with creative solutions for transitions to either immediately or gradually connect seemingly highly contrasting sections or riffs in natural ways.
That part after the solo in 72 Seasons is the exact opposite. The way they just harshly jump back into of the verse sounds jarring, after they modulated away from its tonal center for the interlude section and then do absolutely nothing to transition back to it smoothly. And it would have been easy in this case, as there's actually a few modulations within the solo and they could have simply taken it to a key that would flow naturally back into the verse. Instead, they somehow decided to skip that step and just forcefully "glued" (or copypasted) the verse to the end of the solo. It's like trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle, losing patience because 1 of the remaining pieces won't fit right away, and then inserting it by force, causing the entire puzzle to warp.
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Post by BMus1 on Apr 2, 2023 11:37:04 GMT
How do you feel about the Halo on Fire structure? That's always struck me as one of their best structured songs, modern or otherwise, and I think a big reason why is because of introducing new and fresh parts still at the 5/6 minute mark, like Kimbo said 72S is lacking. That's a good reason as to why a lot of modern long Met songs sound more repetitive than older songs.
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Post by SicJes on Apr 2, 2023 12:55:44 GMT
Halo took the same formula of TDTNC. Basically having 3 chapters to the song but in both cases worked really well.
It will be interesting to see them playing these songs live. I think they will feel what we are feeling after jamming these live infront of a crowd a few times. Will they start chopping out parts at some point? Or keep plodding through?
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Post by Kimbo on Apr 2, 2023 15:30:30 GMT
How do you feel about the Halo on Fire structure? That's always struck me as one of their best structured songs, modern or otherwise, and I think a big reason why is because of introducing new and fresh parts still at the 5/6 minute mark, like Kimbo said 72S is lacking. That's a good reason as to why a lot of modern long Met songs sound more repetitive than older songs. Halo was almost perfect, this is how you make a 6+ min song. I love TDTNC as well but the outro is just a little too long and bloated. And the drumming is some of Lars's laziest moments |
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Post by Prometheus426 on Apr 2, 2023 15:37:26 GMT
How do you feel about the Halo on Fire structure? That's always struck me as one of their best structured songs, modern or otherwise, and I think a big reason why is because of introducing new and fresh parts still at the 5/6 minute mark, like Kimbo said 72S is lacking. That's a good reason as to why a lot of modern long Met songs sound more repetitive than older songs. Halo was almost perfect, this is how you make a 6+ min song. I love TDTNC as well but the outro is just a little too long and bloated. And the drumming is some of Lars's laziest moments DM was really good and HWTSD was decent, not sure what we're going to get this time. |
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Post by Wolfish on Apr 2, 2023 16:13:29 GMT
That YouTuber called Shred had a good review of the 4th single; don't mind the click bait-y heading.
The title track is the weakest of the 4 songs. It's unfortunate as it has positive elements: vocal delivery, riffs, pre-chorus, chorus, bass, and guitar harmonies. Good sound overall too.
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Post by Wolfish on Apr 2, 2023 16:17:56 GMT
James and Lars don't suck, they're just flawed like every other musician and person. And it's pretty clear the benefit that they get from having assistance and direction, whether it be from Cliff or Bob Rock or anyone else. The human element is a part of it too though; would they rather be making music in their handcrafted, ideal environment at HQ with their handpicked team, or with a team of people they don't work with as well in the hopes of making a thrash classic at age 60? Yeah, it's understandable in a way, but I wish they'd challenge themselves one more time. It's unlikley they will go through a phase of having someone in to shake things up as was the case with Bob Rock and Rick Rubin, in a way, at this point in their career. |
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