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Post by Bartman on Jun 6, 2021 13:39:01 GMT
if it merits a red flag on lap 48 it, merited it onlap 46/47 when the crash happened. fucking nonsense.
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Post by Bartman on Jun 6, 2021 13:52:58 GMT
what a farce this is lol.
up there with quartararo in the motogp riding the last part of the race with his overalls unzipped and having thrown his chest protector on the track (faulty zip on his leathers), getting to keep his podium finish.
nascar at sonoma tonight might actually be less of a joke!
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Post by Bartman on Jun 6, 2021 14:26:43 GMT
listen, i have so many problems with this race (it even being held when apparently #weraceasone (just not armenians or political opponents o fthe aliyev family) and how it was governed and run
but it's impossible to hate an event that gives me the top three of checo, seb and gasly - a stewart, spyker and minardi - podium and points for kimi. i love it.
i hated the 45 minute pause tho
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Post by forgotten in space on Jun 6, 2021 17:16:42 GMT
listen, i have so many problems with this race (it even being held when apparently #weraceasone (just not armenians or political opponents o fthe aliyev family) and how it was governed and run but it's impossible to hate an event that gives me the top three of checo, seb and gasly - a stewart, spyker and minardi - podium and points for kimi. i love it. i hated the 45 minute pause tho Max would have kept the win if they didn't resume, no? It would have a been a bit iffy to give the win to a crashed car so I can understand it from a certain point, but it makes no sense to interrupt for safety then create a kamikaze 2-lap minirace. |
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Post by Bartman on Jun 6, 2021 19:13:55 GMT
Max would have kept the win if they didn't resume, no? It would have a been a bit iffy to give the win to a crashed car so I can understand it from a certain point, but it makes no sense to interrupt for safety then create a kamikaze 2-lap minirace. oh, it was total nonsense and bullshit. the 2 lap minirace, fun though it was, set a worrying precedent as far as rule application goes and as far as creating contrived situations for television.
i think that under the old 75% distance rules, verstappen would've kept the win. brazil 2003 precedent would suggest so, as verstappen was leading at the end of the last racing lap (much as fisichella was) while perez was leading when the red was waved (like kimi was).
of course, you could argue that the lap (or two, i can't remember) run behind the safety car, with perez in the lead, is also a racing lap since safety car laps count towards the overall race distance. at the point the decision not to immediately call a red could create numerous legal arguements and debates and i don't think brazil 2003 could be used as precedent here because the yellow was only out for around 20s before it became red. because another red bull was leading at the end, i don't suspect there would be much of an appeal but mercedes could've made an appeal (and i suspect may have) had verstappen been awarded the win.
i can't remember many other red flag finishes that we could use. japan 2014, brazil 2012 and malaysia 2009 were all pretty cut and dry. there was a late red flag at monaco in 2011 but none of the podium positions was affected by that race being restarted, if memory serves. it is a total piss take though to stop the race because of safety concerns - namely the tyres might explode - to then run an open server sprint race 45 minutes later without a mandatory tyre change for the field. there isn't even a case for it being protecting the track workers because verstappen crashed along the pit lane - the safety car can go through there no bother (because it and the field did, barring nicholas latifi) - and because just 15 laps earlier, we had a similar accident in an arguably more dangerous place for car retrieval + with more debris, that dealt with a safety car.
so it was a total pisstake and despite my joking, "can't be mad" comment because i happen to like checo and seb, but truly and honestly, i hated what this race became and what precedent it sets. it shouldn't be for paul fucking di resta to tell us that it'll be a standing start after a red flag on commentary, without an official message from race control on the broadcast (as you'd at least get in the bernie days), which was something that seemingly the teams weren't sure of either. communication between the officiating body and the teams/drivers has broken down and the rights holders and race control seem more interested in creating storylines and buzz for twitter and the next television series than officiating the top level of motorsport in a fair, safe and consistent manner!
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Post by Bartman on Jun 6, 2021 19:16:19 GMT
actually now i tihnk, brazil 2012 actually finished behind the safety car but you get my point.
at the very least, quartararo lost his podium (one place demotion to 4th) for racing a quarter of the race with his leathers down and for deliberately dropping debris on the circuit (not to gain an advantage but still). not exactly a stellar day for officiating and race management.
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Post by forgotten in space on Jun 6, 2021 19:48:41 GMT
what a farce this is lol. up there with quartararo in the motogp riding the last part of the race with his overalls unzipped and having thrown his chest protector on the track (faulty zip on his leathers), getting to keep his podium finish. nascar at sonoma tonight might actually be less of a joke! Quartararo is 6th now? Why couldn't they issue the two penalties at the same time? |
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Post by forgotten in space on Jun 6, 2021 19:54:33 GMT
Max would have kept the win if they didn't resume, no? It would have a been a bit iffy to give the win to a crashed car so I can understand it from a certain point, but it makes no sense to interrupt for safety then create a kamikaze 2-lap minirace. oh, it was total nonsense and bullshit. the 2 lap minirace, fun though it was, set a worrying precedent as far as rule application goes and as far as creating contrived situations for television.
i think that under the old 75% distance rules, verstappen would've kept the win. brazil 2003 precedent would suggest so, as verstappen was leading at the end of the last racing lap (much as fisichella was) while perez was leading when the red was waved (like kimi was).
of course, you could argue that the lap (or two, i can't remember) run behind the safety car, with perez in the lead, is also a racing lap since safety car laps count towards the overall race distance. at the point the decision not to immediately call a red could create numerous legal arguements and debates and i don't think brazil 2003 could be used as precedent here because the yellow was only out for around 20s before it became red. because another red bull was leading at the end, i don't suspect there would be much of an appeal but mercedes could've made an appeal (and i suspect may have) had verstappen been awarded the win.
i can't remember many other red flag finishes that we could use. japan 2014, brazil 2012 and malaysia 2009 were all pretty cut and dry. there was a late red flag at monaco in 2011 but none of the podium positions was affected by that race being restarted, if memory serves. it is a total piss take though to stop the race because of safety concerns - namely the tyres might explode - to then run an open server sprint race 45 minutes later without a mandatory tyre change for the field. there isn't even a case for it being protecting the track workers because verstappen crashed along the pit lane - the safety car can go through there no bother (because it and the field did, barring nicholas latifi) - and because just 15 laps earlier, we had a similar accident in an arguably more dangerous place for car retrieval + with more debris, that dealt with a safety car.
so it was a total pisstake and despite my joking, "can't be mad" comment because i happen to like checo and seb, but truly and honestly, i hated what this race became and what precedent it sets. it shouldn't be for paul fucking di resta to tell us that it'll be a standing start after a red flag on commentary, without an official message from race control on the broadcast (as you'd at least get in the bernie days), which was something that seemingly the teams weren't sure of either. communication between the officiating body and the teams/drivers has broken down and the rights holders and race control seem more interested in creating storylines and buzz for twitter and the next television series than officiating the top level of motorsport in a fair, safe and consistent manner!
Has ever been talk of an alternative to going back one lap under reds to decide the classification, in case damage or something prevents them from going back on track and crossing the finish line behind the safety car? I understand the logic sense of awarding it to fully completed laps, but even if it's a freak occurrence a stricken car shouldn't win  (Not that there needs to be one, if people can't handle safety car finishes who cares) |
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Post by forgotten in space on Jun 11, 2021 21:25:03 GMT
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Post by Bartman on Jun 12, 2021 21:21:45 GMT
every single tribute i've heard or read absolutely glows and i've heard nothing, really, negative.
though, when you've been involved with mclaren for so many decades, nothing would surprise me :p
you've forgotten more than i have known pal!
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Post by Bartman on Jun 12, 2021 21:22:26 GMT
he's done it!!!!!
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Post by Bartman on Jun 13, 2021 17:17:08 GMT
takuma sato almost crashed 5 times in 3 corners just there. iconic.
santino ferrucci broke his leg 3 weeks ago, finished 6th in the 500 a week later, finished 6th at the most miserable and difficult street circuit on the schedule, crashed at 200 odd kph this morning, jumped (hopped) into the spare car and is now running 6th and bossing things.
graham rahal quietly putting together a title bid, somehow, though unfortunately the lads ahead of him in the race are ahead of his in the championship. but he's in a good spot to jump a couple of places, even if newgarden is out of sight.
rahal letterman lanigan are a hell of a team, with these lads the gither. can't think of a banter team quite like this in F1.
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Post by forgotten in space on Jun 13, 2021 18:16:20 GMT
Grosjean trying to extinguish the flames himself <3
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Post by Bartman on Jun 13, 2021 18:16:51 GMT
romain grosjean fighting with a safety worker over who gets to put out his brake fire is what makes this seres better than f1
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Post by Bartman on Jun 13, 2021 18:57:02 GMT
danny ricciardo had better find form soon lol
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Post by forgotten in space on Jun 13, 2021 19:16:04 GMT
danny ricciardo had better find form soon lol Before he turns into Ricky Yardo :v |
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Post by forgotten in space on Jun 18, 2021 19:16:29 GMT
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Post by Bartman on Jun 18, 2021 19:48:32 GMT
my big idea to avoiding hitting kerbs which can destroy cars is to simply not leave the racing surface and respect the track boundaries. that may just be me though. |
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Post by Bartman on Jun 18, 2021 19:49:48 GMT
also there's no grass or gravel and the barriers are about 3km away from the track at paul ricard, there has to at least be *some* consequence. this isn't like at the a1 ring the other year when the kerbs risked possibly sending cars into orbit.
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Post by Bartman on Jun 20, 2021 17:31:29 GMT
this is such a great title battle that i have zero personal interest in lol by september, if it keeps up like this, we should be onto an all timer but after 2015, 2017 and 2018 i amn't convinced that verstappen isn't just going to collapse like vettel or rosberg.
sergio perez is doing exactly what i thought he would and i really think he's going to decide the championship. the race he wins that verstappen only finishes sixth in or breaks down in, the time he 1 stops and holds off hamilton just long enough, keeping finished ahead of bottas etc.
speaking of, communication seems to have totally broken down now between bottas and the team. though strategically mercedes seems totally out to lunch. failing to stop bottas, even after perez passed him, was so so so stupid. so was keeping hamilton out after both drivers seemed to vocalise wanting a 2-stop as well as not pitting immediately after verstappen did.
it is leading to a good title fight but every race can't be hungary 2019 lol. max or lewis going long while the other 2 or 3 stops and catches with 3 laps to go does not necessarily create excitement or suggest dynamism from anybody. at least perez is quite interesting.
i totally missed russell somehow finish 12th. i know that leclerc had problems but i can't recall the radio comms or tv cut to him even once. i was preparing to be snarky and say that after this weekend - russell was a little off at the start iirc and barely beat latifi in quali - and say that if i'm toto i am willing to throw whatever money to viry to buy ocon out if/when bottas is redeployed to williams. i haven't been too impressed by russell this year but if he keeps up this kind of thing, i think he's making an even better case for getting the merc drive (though i still don't think merc should rule out their other options just yet).
comrade kimi was anonymous and that norris guy still seems like the real deal.
i can't mind where we're racing next. is it silverstone? or a1 ring?
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Post by forgotten in space on Jun 20, 2021 20:06:19 GMT
It's Austria twice next :D
I am not a complete fan of Paul Ricard, but as shown today if there's enough of a step between the tyre compounds then there's also strategy variables and decent racing. (Again, Mistral doesn't need DRS.) Teams are really greedy with the non-aggression pact of "let's all do one-stoppers lol", and it shows at Mercedes, like you hint at. They are so dominant usually that they can just react conservatively.
It would be so cool if this devolves into a proper 2016 shitshow between HAM/VER and Checo nicking it at the end... :(
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Post by forgotten in space on Jun 21, 2021 18:52:09 GMT
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Post by Bartman on Jun 22, 2021 21:04:01 GMT
It's Austria twice next :D I am not a complete fan of Paul Ricard, but as shown today if there's enough of a step between the tyre compounds then there's also strategy variables and decent racing. (Again, Mistral doesn't need DRS.) Teams are really greedy with the non-aggression pact of "let's all do one-stoppers lol", and it shows at Mercedes, like you hint at. They are so dominant usually that they can just react conservatively. It would be so cool if this devolves into a proper 2016 shitshow between HAM/VER and Checo nicking it at the end... :( double austria!!!! yesssssssss!
hamilton and verstappen descending and checo doing a kimi in 2007 is the actual dream. i would love that so much.
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Post by Bartman on Jun 22, 2021 21:05:25 GMT
not sure how i feel about the yas marina changes tbh. i think it looks more like a bike circuit now - which is not a bad thing but i am curious to see how an F1 race will go there.
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Post by yepsure on Jun 27, 2021 6:13:39 GMT
Should be an interesting race tonight. Also gotta love Bottas spinning out in the pit after calling our Red Bull for "dangerous" pit times...and I say this as a Mercedes supported.
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Post by Bartman on Jun 27, 2021 8:24:47 GMT
Should be an interesting race tonight. Also gotta love Bottas spinning out in the pit after calling our Red Bull for "dangerous" pit times...and I say this as a Mercedes supported. with the championship (pretty much) completely out of the question now, i seriously hope we get a return of the not fucks having bottas we've occasionally seen. |
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Post by Bartman on Jun 27, 2021 8:31:24 GMT
watching the w series race from yesterday and two things i have noticed, well, one thing i noticed and one thing that was reconfirmed for me: the first is that those cars are *so* slow - 10 seconds slower than gp3 level slow. i didn't watch a great deal of the first series, i'll admit, other than the race at assen and i was just excited to see cars racing at assen more than analysing what actually is happening.
the second is that that totally doesn't matter at the red bull ring because the red bull ring is an amazing circuit. it is so so so good - open wheel, bikes, touring cars, endurance races everything runs so well there. it's funny, 25 years later, to think how reviled it was. i think either bruce jones or murray walker compared it to a tapeworm living within the old osterreichring, rather colourfully. i would love for the osterreichring to return of course but, with modern safety standards and what not, this is probably the best we could get. terrific circuit.
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Post by yepsure on Jun 27, 2021 8:56:08 GMT
Bottas has nothing to lose this year which also adds to the dyanamic
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Post by Bartman on Jun 30, 2021 21:02:50 GMT
what a fucking racket this is lol
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Post by forgotten in space on Jul 3, 2021 21:15:38 GMT
watching the w series race from yesterday and two things i have noticed, well, one thing i noticed and one thing that was reconfirmed for me: the first is that those cars are *so* slow - 10 seconds slower than gp3 level slow. i didn't watch a great deal of the first series, i'll admit, other than the race at assen and i was just excited to see cars racing at assen more than analysing what actually is happening. the second is that that totally doesn't matter at the red bull ring because the red bull ring is an amazing circuit. it is so so so good - open wheel, bikes, touring cars, endurance races everything runs so well there. it's funny, 25 years later, to think how reviled it was. i think either bruce jones or murray walker compared it to a tapeworm living within the old osterreichring, rather colourfully. i would love for the osterreichring to return of course but, with modern safety standards and what not, this is probably the best we could get. terrific circuit. This clip of the race start is the first time I ever seen footage of W Series and yeah it looks painfully underwhelming... |
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