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Post by aside on Feb 2, 2018 9:12:56 GMT
Hi all,
Not sure if this will appeal to anyone here but thought I'd share.
80's Metallica you say .... and Justice is one of the great metal albums of all time with possibly the worst mix, it really sucks.
Had a few hours to kill so remixed Blackened to sound more like the Black album. Enjoy!
AUDIO clyp.it/user/2qbvxrbf
One is my new mix, and the 'comparison' mix alternates between the original and mine every 5 seconds, for shits and giggles.
Also on Youtube, but the sound isn't as good of course (new version added Feb 6)
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Post by BigBunny on Feb 2, 2018 10:55:29 GMT
listening now...
edit: for me the drums are too high but you did say you made it like The Black Album. if I had to choose I'd take the album mix though I do like hearing the bass.
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Post by Alan-P on Feb 2, 2018 12:04:44 GMT
That was actually pretty good, nice work. One criticism would be the reverb time on the drums is way too long. Other than that  Edit, might actually be the "room size" rather than time on that reverb. Ps welcome aboard. |
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Post by aside on Feb 2, 2018 12:16:01 GMT
Cheers! Yeah there's actually no reverb on the drums, it's the room sound in the sample. Works well for slow black album songs, not so much for faster material.
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Post by Alan-P on Feb 2, 2018 12:37:55 GMT
Cheers! Yeah there's actually no reverb on the drums, it's the room sound in the sample. Works well for slow black album songs, not so much for faster material. Anything you can do to reduce that effect? Also, have you done the rest of the album? |
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Post by aside on Feb 2, 2018 17:15:53 GMT
Yep will tweak the mix a bit, any other feedback? I like the drums nice and prominent like this, the guitars could probably come up a little but then the bass starts to disappear... I think that mistake has already been made!
It’s funny, I hate the original mix but as soon as you change it, it starts sounding very ‘wrong’! You get so used to something I guess, kinda like a mistake in an old favourite film.
No just this song for now 👍
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Post by aside on Feb 2, 2018 19:09:51 GMT
New version up on youtube. Now all I do is sit back and wait for the call from James to remix the whole album :D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 21:22:21 GMT
Not bad. Could you upload somewhere that will allow higher quality?
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Post by SicJes on Feb 2, 2018 22:01:07 GMT
Great job! Sounds killer! Now do All Nightmare Long please :)
This one right?
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Post by ModerusPrime on Feb 2, 2018 23:11:28 GMT
Drumagog?
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Post by BigBunny on Feb 3, 2018 0:22:16 GMT
Yep will tweak the mix a bit, any other feedback? I like the drums nice and prominent like this, the guitars could probably come up a little but then the bass starts to disappear... I think that mistake has already been made! It’s funny, I hate the original mix but as soon as you change it, it starts sounding very ‘wrong’! You get so used to something I guess, kinda like a mistake in an old favourite film. No just this song for now 👍 I know nothing about mixing songs but I love hearing the bass. don't bring the guitars up if the bass disappears, as you said I may as well listen to the album version if ya did that  I'll listen to the youtube mix now. |
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Post by aside on Feb 3, 2018 1:05:47 GMT
Great job! Sounds killer! Now do All Nightmare Long please :) This one right? Yep, I edited the link in my first post. I used something similar to Drumagog called Slate Trigger. Most people bemoan the lacking bass - I reckon the original drums and guitar sounds were also craptastic and a big factor in the lifeless original mixes. |
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Post by ford71V8 on Feb 3, 2018 4:51:54 GMT
I Kinda like the drum sound but I straight away feel the guitars are lost.
And I like those 'craptastic lifeless' sounds.
Was cool to hear though sitting here last night.
You said it best....as soon as you change it, it starts sounding very ‘wrong’
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Post by yepsure on Feb 3, 2018 5:37:53 GMT
Sorry but it’s really not for me. As a general rule I dislike fan edits and mixes with a passion and this is no exception.
The awful drum samples, the extreme reverb on the vocals, the overly compressed guitars ruin the aggressive tone - all male up why I dislike this.
It sounds “wrong” because it is wrong not just because it’s different. The sound is completely uncharacteristic for the band at the time (and ever since) and is completely at odds with how the album was recorded and the sounds that they went for on the vocals and guitars.
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Post by aside on Feb 3, 2018 7:23:18 GMT
Sorry but it’s really not for me. As a general rule I dislike fan edits and mixes with a passion and this is no exception. The awful drum samples, the extreme reverb on the vocals, the overly compressed guitars ruin the aggressive tone - all male up why I dislike this. It sounds “wrong” because it is wrong not just because it’s different. The sound is completely uncharacteristic for the band at the time (and ever since) and is completely at odds with how the album was recorded and the sounds that they went for on the vocals and guitars. So besides that you thought it was pretty cool right? Just messing with you.... Metallica has always had passionate fans, I love that. One guy likes the remix, one hates it, and that's all good. So for those interested, here's what I actually did. - drums: added some black album samples for kick and snare, plus tried to thicken and liven the deadish original tracks. - bass: it's there, it's actually there! - guitars: I didn't apply any compression or effects , some of that woof honk woof was taken out around 300Hz to make room for the bass though. - vocals: I didn't apply any compression or effects, the stems were wet so I got what I got. - mix: some SSL buss compression, Pultec EQ for some highs and lows and a very light limiter to shave off nasty peaks - nothing to extreme. One guy from another forum messaged me to say he's gone gaga over it and is begging me to do the whole album - he really shares my hatred for the original. Another commented that I'm a turd polisher and should be ashamed. Passion! Don't get me started on Badmotorfinger! Cheers gents. |
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Post by Alan-P on Feb 3, 2018 7:40:44 GMT
Sorry but it’s really not for me. As a general rule I dislike fan edits and mixes with a passion and this is no exception. The awful drum samples, the extreme reverb on the vocals, the overly compressed guitars ruin the aggressive tone - all male up why I dislike this. It sounds “wrong” because it is wrong not just because it’s different. The sound is completely uncharacteristic for the band at the time (and ever since) and is completely at odds with how the album was recorded and the sounds that they went for on the vocals and guitars. So besides that you thought it was pretty cool right? Just messing with you.... Metallica has always had passionate fans, I love that. One guy likes the remix, one hates it, and that's all good. So for those interested, here's what I actually did. - drums: added some black album samples for kick and snare, plus tried to thicken and liven the deadish original tracks. - bass: it's there, it's actually there! - guitars: I didn't apply any compression or effects , some of that woof honk woof was taken out around 300Hz to make room for the bass though. - vocals: I didn't apply any compression or effects, the stems were wet so I got what I got. - mix: some SSL buss compression, Pultec EQ for some highs and lows and a very light limiter to shave off nasty peaks - nothing to extreme. One guy from another forum messaged me to say he's gone gaga over it and is begging me to do the whole album - he really shares my hatred for the original. Another commented that I'm a turd polisher and should be ashamed. Passion! Don't get me started on Badmotorfinger! Cheers gents. If you want to do the whole album, I'm not going to say no... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 8:02:05 GMT
Pfff, give me endless remixes of these albums. It's interesting to hear. Justice was good but dry. There are endless ways to add to that dryness and it is interesting to hear. I don't give a fuck about their intentions back then or whatever. This remix was a fun 'new' listen of an old ass track. More. Bring it.
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Post by aside on Feb 3, 2018 8:31:58 GMT
Pfff, give me endless remixes of these albums. It's interesting to hear. Justice was good but dry. There are endless ways to add to that dryness and it is interesting to hear. I don't give a fuck about their intentions back then or whatever. This remix was a fun 'new' listen of an old ass track. More. Bring it. Next I was thinking of Kill 'Em All with the Slippery When Wet drum sound, that cool with everyone? |
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Post by BigBunny on Feb 3, 2018 11:58:24 GMT
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Post by yepsure on Feb 3, 2018 12:20:00 GMT
Sorry but it’s really not for me. As a general rule I dislike fan edits and mixes with a passion and this is no exception. The awful drum samples, the extreme reverb on the vocals, the overly compressed guitars ruin the aggressive tone - all male up why I dislike this. It sounds “wrong” because it is wrong not just because it’s different. The sound is completely uncharacteristic for the band at the time (and ever since) and is completely at odds with how the album was recorded and the sounds that they went for on the vocals and guitars. So besides that you thought it was pretty cool right? Just messing with you.... Metallica has always had passionate fans, I love that. One guy likes the remix, one hates it, and that's all good. So for those interested, here's what I actually did. - drums: added some black album samples for kick and snare, plus tried to thicken and liven the deadish original tracks. - bass: it's there, it's actually there! - guitars: I didn't apply any compression or effects , some of that woof honk woof was taken out around 300Hz to make room for the bass though. - vocals: I didn't apply any compression or effects, the stems were wet so I got what I got. - mix: some SSL buss compression, Pultec EQ for some highs and lows and a very light limiter to shave off nasty peaks - nothing to extreme. One guy from another forum messaged me to say he's gone gaga over it and is begging me to do the whole album - he really shares my hatred for the original. Another commented that I'm a turd polisher and should be ashamed. Passion! Don't get me started on Badmotorfinger! Cheers gents. Man, there’s no way there is that much reverb on the vocals on the studio version. And sorry but the guitars do sound super compressed. The bass does sound cool though. And don’t get me wrong, I get why people like this stuff, they’re just not for me. Especially all the sampled drum stuff. I like Moderus’ remixes because he tends to make mixes that are in line with how the album(s) were recorded and the overall vision for the albums rather than try to turn them into something else entirely which never works. |
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Post by Ruflux on Feb 3, 2018 16:30:07 GMT
No, there's definitely that much reverb on the studio originals:
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Post by aside on Feb 3, 2018 20:43:03 GMT
Just to be clear, I don't have the studio multitrack to work from. I used stems that came from guitar hero or one of those games. These are submixed groups of tracks with effects added. It would be great to have all the tracks (could be around 40 all up) but I only had 10.
The original multitrack probably had 4 or 5 tracks of dry vocals. The stem (what you hear in my mix and the post above) is a mix of all these tracks down to one track, with effects applied by whoever did these stems at the time, to emulate what they heard in the original mix. Now they sometimes get it right, but often get it wrong. Either way, once that's done those effects are committed and undoable down the line.
Same goes for guitars... heaps (who knows, a dozen) of tracks were submixed down to two stereo pairs - one rhythm and one lead. Compression was possibly added, EQ, who knows. I wish I could get the original tracks, it would be possible to do a proper remix and really have some fun. Along they way I think lots of fans would be thrilled, and some horrified :D
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Post by yepsure on Feb 3, 2018 22:09:46 GMT
No, there's definitely that much reverb on the studio originals: Holy shit! That’s crazy. All that reverb is lost (thankfully) on the final studio mix. |
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Post by SicJes on Feb 3, 2018 22:57:57 GMT
It's like he's yelling into some kind of echo chamber...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 23:23:36 GMT
Reverb is good. I'm glad MOP had plenty of it.
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Post by aside on Feb 3, 2018 23:45:13 GMT
There wasn't that much reverb on the original! This is what I'm saying about post processing. The vocal tracks on the multitrack were/are dry and reverb is adding to them during mixdown (in 1988), but this reverb is not committed to the multitrack tape - it's added to the vocal at the mixing board and then committed to a stereo tape which becomes the master for the stereo mix.
The reverb you hear in the youtube clips of vocals only, or in my or anyone else's post mix, was added at the time that the guitar hero tracks were created (by god knows who), or people may have added more along the way.
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Post by ModerusPrime on Feb 4, 2018 5:42:02 GMT
What limits it for me is the fact that some drum hits are missing. That's the downside to using programs like drumagog and the like. It also needs to be mixed and leveled better. It's all over the place.
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Post by aside on Feb 4, 2018 8:11:56 GMT
What limits it for me is the fact that some drum hits are missing. That's the downside to using programs like drumagog and the like. It also needs to be mixed and leveled better. It's all over the place. Yeah true about using drum samples - the programs can only do so much, and this track has about 500% more strikes than the music I usually mix! To do it properly I'd have to spend a few hours going through and manually catching the ones missed. I didn't notice that many to be honest, where are you hearing them - kick mostly? If you have any specific tweaks for 'mixing' and 'levelling' I'd be happy to take your suggestions and try them out. It's interesting, one persons 'the kick is way too loud' is another persons 'I love the punchiness on the kick'. But seriously, negative feedback is cool by me - and if it's specific it can actually be useful. If you're a guitar player though, you're not allowed to ask for the guitars to be turned up (and so on and so forth for the other instruments)  |
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Post by aside on Feb 4, 2018 23:29:04 GMT
Not bad. Could you upload somewhere that will allow higher quality? Yep, OP edited to include HQ audio (well mp3).
The 'comparison' mix may be useful to quickly hear how much I've messed up the original vision of the artist 
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Post by Alan-P on Feb 5, 2018 11:52:42 GMT
So how long did that take you?
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I'll listen to the youtube mix now.
