|
|
Post by forgotten in space on Nov 19, 2017 14:37:43 GMT
Why no races in America? Think it would empower Liberty to try to change things too much? One is enough for me, it's just one country.
Though to be fair my opinion can't count, otherwise it would be all the races in the same 7 or 8 circuits but twice :P
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Nov 19, 2017 22:19:39 GMT
well, a couple of reasons: i really enjoy CoTA as a circuit for everything other than formula one. it's nice and sweet that the drivers like it but i think other than 2012 with hamilton and vettel (and karthikeyan...), it has yet to produce a really compelling race. the 2015 race in the rain was alright but that was helped by its championship consequences. six races in and it's just...there, y'know?
that leads on to: there is no real alternative venue. barber is the only other grade 1 circuit in the usa and it's fantastic...for indycar cars with shorter wheelbases and a series/drivers more tolerant of contact and actually having to *make* a pass. other than that: mid ohio is too short and narrow; sonoma is too narrow; laguna seca can only run a few dates a year and let's be honest, it ain't happening; daytona has the banking; as does fontana and homestead; sebring is not appropriate; indiandapolis failed before, and even if you bring 150,000 people to a race there, it's literally half empty still; watkins glen is just insanity; nobody cares about that track in the middle of the steppe in utah... there is still road america but in order to make it "F1 appropriate" they'd have to gut it of all of the features that make it a great race track and totally neuter it. as would be the case for any of the above circuits.
they could design a new circuit, or pay to *somehow* put on a street circuit somewhere but honestly. i think that they are on a hiding to nothing pursuing the united states as a market. formula one has tried numerous times before and it hasn't caught on, i don't seen what else they can do to make it happen: a us manufacturer sure isn't joining and until the FIA reevalutes its licensing system, non-european drivers won't be flooding in anytime soon. i'm interested to see what liberty's solutions will be, i hope they don't go towards a franchising model and overly artifical solutions to (a lack of) technical parity and unexciting races but i won't hold my breath. and omre to the point, it isn't going to work in every market: naturally you want to succeed in the USA because there's money to be had, but if folk aren't interested, they aren't interested no matter how hard you try to sell it. why don't we stick a grand prix in central asia, western africa, try some other "new" markets...
idk, i want GOOD tracks which reward actual good racing *within* the boundaries of the track and technical freedom/innovation, sensible rules and standards, and a financial structure that makes sense and rewards recent success over longevity. there are things that could be done, i think, to create the conditions for an interesting and exciting sport that will appeal to people. fucking e-sports, fake overtaking and sprint racing aren't where the solutions lie, imo.
plus, lastly, there's already two massively successful races which bring in 70-100,000 spectators in two countries either side of the usa - one less than 50 miles from the border - if they can't bring at least that much to a race, well.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Nov 19, 2017 22:22:55 GMT
also they should absolutely let us write the calendar out. as long as we agree that we go back to the old days of a south african grand prix in early january and let the teams conduct two solid months of testing in the southern hemisphere summer months, we're good.
just no fucking hockenheim tho. hockenheim is shit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Nov 19, 2017 22:26:34 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by forgotten in space on Nov 19, 2017 22:59:04 GMT
well, a couple of reasons: i really enjoy CoTA as a circuit for everything other than formula one. it's nice and sweet that the drivers like it but i think other than 2012 with hamilton and vettel (and karthikeyan...), it has yet to produce a really compelling race. the 2015 race in the rain was alright but that was helped by its championship consequences. six races in and it's just...there, y'know? that leads on to: there is no real alternative venue. barber is the only other grade 1 circuit in the usa and it's fantastic...for indycar cars with shorter wheelbases and a series/drivers more tolerant of contact and actually having to *make* a pass. other than that: mid ohio is too short and narrow; sonoma is too narrow; laguna seca can only run a few dates a year and let's be honest, it ain't happening; daytona has the banking; as does fontana and homestead; sebring is not appropriate; indiandapolis failed before, and even if you bring 150,000 people to a race there, it's literally half empty still; watkins glen is just insanity; nobody cares about that track in the middle of the steppe in utah... there is still road america but in order to make it "F1 appropriate" they'd have to gut it of all of the features that make it a great race track and totally neuter it. as would be the case for any of the above circuits. they could design a new circuit, or pay to *somehow* put on a street circuit somewhere but honestly. i think that they are on a hiding to nothing pursuing the united states as a market. formula one has tried numerous times before and it hasn't caught on, i don't seen what else they can do to make it happen: a us manufacturer sure isn't joining and until the FIA reevalutes its licensing system, non-european drivers won't be flooding in anytime soon. i'm interested to see what liberty's solutions will be, i hope they don't go towards a franchising model and overly artifical solutions to (a lack of) technical parity and unexciting races but i won't hold my breath. and omre to the point, it isn't going to work in every market: naturally you want to succeed in the USA because there's money to be had, but if folk aren't interested, they aren't interested no matter how hard you try to sell it. why don't we stick a grand prix in central asia, western africa, try some other "new" markets... idk, i want GOOD tracks which reward actual good racing *within* the boundaries of the track and technical freedom/innovation, sensible rules and standards, and a financial structure that makes sense and rewards recent success over longevity. there are things that could be done, i think, to create the conditions for an interesting and exciting sport that will appeal to people. fucking e-sports, fake overtaking and sprint racing aren't where the solutions lie, imo. plus, lastly, there's already two massively successful races which bring in 70-100,000 spectators in two countries either side of the usa - one less than 50 miles from the border - if they can't bring at least that much to a race, well. I agree with you with you on the American tracks,and to my mind CoTa, GV and HR are enough American presence. But please no new circuit if it's a street race, I can't stand it. So many circuits butchered in the name of safety then they go and run in dangerous walled street circuits with no run-offs, it's nonsense. Probably the reason I haven't checked Formula E out, they need to go to dedicated circuits. Of course the whole city thing is vital for what they think is the capturing of new crowds, but... |
|
|
|
Post by forgotten in space on Nov 19, 2017 23:40:11 GMT
That was quite mental, probably the only thing missing was diGrassi binning it on the last corner!
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Nov 20, 2017 1:22:12 GMT
ahaha, i was actually expecting that at one point. not every formula e race is that exciting but there's usually been 3-4 crackers every season so far, 3-4 duds too but that's racing. does help that they were racing on a proper race track there anaw. the street circuits in buenos aries and punta del este were pretty alright but unfortunately neither of them are returning next season. I agree with you with you on the American tracks,and to my mind CoTa, GV and HR are enough American presence. But please no new circuit if it's a street race, I can't stand it. So many circuits butchered in the name of safety then they go and run in dangerous walled street circuits with no run-offs, it's nonsense. Probably the reason I haven't checked Formula E out, they need to go to dedicated circuits. Of course the whole city thing is vital for what they think is the capturing of new crowds, but... a street circuit, tho liberty and co would LOVE it, is not happening, based off of the history of every other attempted street circuit in the usa over the past decade. remember the new york grand prix which was provisionally on the calendar for about four years? there's also the legacy of longevity and of political harmony and minimal civic disruption birthed from the las vegas, houston, baltimore (@steelyc can vouch for this), san jose indycar street races, the nashville and boston ones that didn't happen... nah, i can't see a street circuit seriously happening in the usa. not for formula one. the first sector at baku is surely more dangerous than bruxelles, pouhon and the blanchimont-bus stop-pit straight-la source series (RIP </3) at spa ever could be in post-1994 cars, yet we can have cars tonto into a 90 degree corner with minimal runoff and temporary barriers, slowing from 220mph, while spa is now shit. logic. and they bring tracks so dull that spectators are known to fall into comas mid-race, like hockenheim, back!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Nov 23, 2017 1:20:34 GMT
fuck off   democracy is not a good system evidently |
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Nov 25, 2017 13:45:10 GMT
felipe massa knocking fernando alonso out of Q3 is the best thing to come from this weekend.
|
|
|
|
Post by forgotten in space on Nov 25, 2017 16:00:56 GMT
have you read Financial Times Lunch with Bernie interview? The guy always came across as fucking scum but this one is pretty much sociopathic, on top of his usual admiration for the Hitlers and Putins of the land, he hints at admiration for the criminals that kidnapped his mother-in-law and for that Gribkowsky bloke that went to prison for blackmailing him.
it's a fascinating read, but terrible all the same.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Nov 25, 2017 22:57:16 GMT
i haven't read it yet but i will have to!
i love bernie, he made some incredibly odd and many good decisions for formula one. main thing he did was stop formula one going the way CART did in the '90s - whether that would've ended up being a positive i don't know, but he avoided it. i think he left at the right time, unsure if the BCE way is the best way for the 21st century, but at least, unlike liberty, he's been there, done it all, on the competition side, and so i was a little sad to see the old boy go.
a lot of his political and philosophical views are mental: right wing dictators running sports organisations is FINE, countries considerably less so. all that stuff is dodgy.
putin looking all shy and cute around the drivers at sochi is always worth that pretty torrid (but pretty setting) race.
|
|
|
|
Post by SicJes on Nov 25, 2017 23:56:09 GMT
The E Formula race we had here this summer was a big flop and cost our former mayor the election win a few weeks back. So much money wasted and people pissed off. It'll be back next summer, but possibly not through downtown.
Another reason to come to Montreal Bartman. They where pretty much giving away tickets for free to fill up the stands. Something like 5000 actually bought, 20,000 given away. The former Mayor who was all about the E race was hiding these numbers from the population until the dirt came out before our municipal election about a month ago.
|
|
|
|
Post by forgotten in space on Nov 26, 2017 1:30:54 GMT
The E Formula race we had here this summer was a big flop and cost our former mayor the election win a few weeks back. So much money wasted and people pissed off. It'll be back next summer, but possibly not through downtown. Another reason to come to Montreal Bartman. They where pretty much giving away tickets for free to fill up the stands. Something like 5000 actually bought, 20,000 given away. The former Mayor who was all about the E race was hiding these numbers from the population until the dirt came out before our municipal election about a month ago. Damn. Bums on seats would be worse if they used the F1 track or was it being downtown that threw people off? |
|
|
|
Post by SicJes on Nov 26, 2017 2:39:45 GMT
All the merchants who where effected by the race route got like only $500 bucks compensation for the lost business, that didn't go over well.
A shit load of money spent on concrete barriers, poor sponsorship, extreme lack of interest by most of the public yet the mayor said fuck our opinion and pushed forward saying it would put us on the map for future entertainment.
The list goes on.
Montrealers love their Grand Prix weekend here, yet had no interest in little electric cars zipping around downtown. We'll see how next year's race goes. They are apparently going to change the location.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Nov 26, 2017 2:50:18 GMT
the montreal formula e track was a fucking belter anaw
i would legit have paid to put patrick carpentier or alex tagliani in one of the cars for the formula e weekend. obvs i amn't montrealais but i remember they seemed to shift thousands of tickets in the CART/champ car days. idk would've been FUN.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Nov 26, 2017 17:17:37 GMT
the cars looked fast as fuck through that first sector, possibly the first time the on track action during a formula one race at yas marina has looked as nice as that stuff around the track
also, heikki kovalainen chilling in the mclaren garage, maybe interesting (but not from a formula one perspective). guessing he isn't a guest of honda given that he's a lexus driver in super gt. possibly nothing, possibly something, re mclaren entering sports car racing or indycar, zac brown's united autosport team.
probs just watching the grand prix with his old employers.
|
|
|
|
Post by forgotten in space on Nov 26, 2017 17:57:41 GMT
Grosjean vs Stroll was quite nice.
Went for lunch when Bottas pitted, yawned through the rest.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Nov 26, 2017 21:02:39 GMT
nice battle terrible race. hulkenberg, grosjean and perez following each other round for half of the race was a sad indictment of all of the false hope everybody had for these three in 2012-2013. my god.
|
|
|
|
Post by forgotten in space on Dec 7, 2017 19:02:31 GMT
went for another run of the F1 game, Hungaroring with maximum downforce in the veeeery agile and driver friendly RB6 is just awesome, the car responds so well and you negociate the corners so effortlessly it doesn't even feel like a low-speed track. Unfortunately, the presence of the 2004 Ferrari (laps almost 2 seconds faster than the RB6 sometimes) in the classic car races makes it pretty damn impossible to win anything, even in easier modes  |
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Dec 28, 2017 21:32:31 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Jan 15, 2018 0:57:01 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by ford71V8 on Jan 15, 2018 2:12:01 GMT
 1967 Le Mans winner (Ford GT40) |
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Jan 16, 2018 0:19:44 GMT
i realise it's about dan gurney but ffs, aj foyt with low key the best ever driver ever @ le mans 1967. what a goddamn team.
|
|
|
|
Post by forgotten in space on Jan 31, 2018 14:32:53 GMT
No more grid girls, to be honest what with ignoring quali, most races and not even bothering with the formation lap I barely notice they're there.
Next should be Los Toreadors, that's mor out of date than Chase Carey's moustache.
|
|
|
|
Post by ford71V8 on Feb 1, 2018 2:36:44 GMT
Grid Girl ban
Booooooooooooooooooooooo
|
|
|
|
Post by forgotten in space on Mar 22, 2018 18:50:08 GMT
So this is a thing
* Triple facepalm*
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Sept 5, 2018 1:38:19 GMT
valtteri bottas is such a fucking geek and kimi will win again one day
|
|
|
|
Post by forgotten in space on Sept 5, 2018 2:21:19 GMT
valtteri bottas is such a fucking geek and kimi will win again one day What do you mean about Bottas? :o |
|
|
|
Post by LeeClaire on Sept 5, 2018 5:00:15 GMT
That race at Monza was pretty good.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bartman on Jan 1, 2020 4:54:43 GMT
give carlos sainz jr the title next year, liberty
|
|
