Story Behind the Black Album

HR?

Let's not pretend like there isn't a fair amount of angst in the black album's lyrics.

Cramming a million riffs and drum fills in 10 minute songs (as much as I love AJFA) reflected their insecurities as musicians, as they've admitted. Sophomoric 'angry young man' lyrics are also a sign of insecurity, imho :)
The Unforgiven was Hetfield's coming out of the tuff guy closet, pretty much the opposite of teenage angst, no?

True, true!
Unforgiven is more like him reflecting on his past. Anyway, if TBA is the biggest sellout in history, it's also the most talented. Some people say they don't like the songs but still crank that record because of how amazing it sounds. Says it all...

Sig, you make a good point, but Lars always wanted to be successful, he always wanted to be the next Iron Maiden. By the end of the Damaged Justice tour they were already millionaires, living the rock star lifestyle, hanging out with the likes of Sebastian Bach rather than Gary Holt. They had already become "what they used to hate", the difference with Bon Jovi was they didn't sing about it. Put in that perspective, them selling out on TBA was merely then adapting their music to their new lifestyle and status. Like I said, they did sell out, but they did that with talent and still doing very much their own thing instead of copying the chart toppers (remember this was still the Warrant et al era at that point).

Cannibal Corpse, Deicide, etc "sold out" long ago, in a way. They stick to a routine perpetuating an established brand, allowing these once-extreme, envelope-pusher bands to have long term careers which is more rock star-like than punk-like. Why else would men in their mid fifties continue to gurgle into a microphone, going on about dismembering Christ and fucking corpses? These bands are their 9-5 jobs, no more no less.

Depends, look at Napalm Death, they messed around with their sound at some point but still in an extreme way, but their lyrics can't be described as gimmicky or childish. As for 'dumbing down for the masses'... 'simpler' doesn't mean 'less interesting'. AJFA is my fave album to jam along to on guitar or drums, that's prob the album I've listened to the most over the years, but when I just listen to it in the car, I always think 'that riff is useless' or 'why on earth does he put that fill here'. It's not the album that's immature, it's the musicians. Let's not get started on how their little ego wars ended up leaving the bass out the mix, if that's not immature I don't know what is lol.

look, I could talk about that all night. I just think they did the right thing at the right time, and thank fuck they never had a problem with making money instead of blowing their brains like Kurt Cobain. I happen to think no younger rock band is anywhere near succeeding to Metallica today partly because of that mentality. That's a shame, but that's also why pop and rap are topping the charts and rock is in the shitter. There needs to be a rock/metal dinosaur so the underground can rebel against. Currently there's no dinosaurs, no rebels, just a bunch of whiny middle class white guys complaining about lack of sales.

No, no, no. RTL is metallic perfection. MoP has a few unecessarily lengthy moments, but still damn near perfect too. AJFA suffered from childish ego wars, doesn't mean I don't love it. I know how cool it makes one look to diss on post-AJFA Metallica, but isn't it strange how Bells or Creeping Death are every bit as 'basic' as anything on TBA, yet no one ever puts them down for being "dumb".

My argument, if you want to call it that way, is that writing catchy songs that may appeal to a larger audience is every bit an art as writing proggy stuff which for some reason (jealousy maybe) the fans of the latter think is the superior art form, which is in my opinion a little bit childish. AGain, I don't care if you don't agree, a forum is for people to debate ideas.

PS. please explain how "dumbing down for the masses" could have a meaning any more positive than "mind numbingly stupid", nevermind "interesting"?

I think the reason people say they didn't sell out is to do with the more commonly, understood definition of the term: a betrayal of one's principles for reasons of expedience. So changing their style to fit a musical trend or fashion. Ya know?

I don't think folks would (should) ever deny they made conscious decisions to become more mainstream (although the band would probably not use that word) but I do think the term sell out causes some people's hackles to rise.

Also, I'll take Ronnie over Metal Militia anyday.

My Friend of Misery?

That's cool. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

Personally, and this is not a dig at you or other  folks who share your opinion, but I find the position of saying that Metallica only ever made good music on the first 4 albums, absolutely nuts. There's tons of great music post 1989. 

But it's an emotional thing. You're Metallica is the spotty, unwashed, drunken louts. Mine is the all-in-black, 3 hour shows (with solos), drunken megastars. 

But variety is the spice of life!

My Friend of Misery, Bleeding Me, The Outlaw Torn just to name a few that are just as good as their earlier output

Let me guess, you love Hardwired, and think "YES THIS IS MY METALLICA" because it's fast and James swears in it?