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Post by waunakonor on Aug 21, 2016 1:38:56 GMT
I'll be interested to read yep-sure's thoughts when he catches sight of this thread..... I'm not sure what I can add that you haven't already said. [Proceeds to add a bunch of fantastic points that hadn't yet been said] ^Amazing post.
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Post by jetpacksam on Aug 21, 2016 7:07:11 GMT
Newsted was "some guy"? "Replaceable"? Yeah ok. Subjective: My Friend Of Misery as just a bass piece when it's the best song on that record? Facts >Can't write? Doomsday For The Deceiver says otherwise. The management was completely on board and wanted Jason to take it out as an opener for Metallica, Kirk loved Echobrain. 2 Days later, dead. Thanks James. "Saved the band by leaving"? You mean saved it by forcing everyone to realize how fucked up they were? They weren't willing to sit in a room and deal with shit? "Really fucking lame and weak...we can't get together over this?" They knew for months what was going on, no one went to talk to him. Unwilling to sit in a room with each other and work on shit so they could get healthy, without towleboy, and despite all the protesting, the cameras. Flemming Rasmussen Would have buried Puppets and tied lightning, so obviously we can't have that. FYI: Burton and Newsted both left the band on the same date: 27 September, 14 years apart
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 7:28:41 GMT
Jason is a hack. His shit projects prove so.
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Post by jetpacksam on Aug 21, 2016 7:39:28 GMT
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Post by waunakonor on Aug 21, 2016 14:11:32 GMT
You already used that one. Try coming up with a new comeback.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 14:29:30 GMT
I wonder if JN intentionally left the band on Sep 27 or if it was a weird coincidence.
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Post by jetpacksam on Aug 21, 2016 21:59:36 GMT
^ They were doing the video for "Classic Albums". It was a "coincidence" You already used that one. Try coming up with a new comeback. nah
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 22:13:37 GMT
You know what also happened on September 27 ?
" The View " single.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 11:46:27 GMT
I wonder if JN intentionally left the band on Sep 27 or if it was a weird coincidence. He said it's the latter. That's the day James told him where to shove Echobrain ("other arrangements can be made") and he made up his mind right then.
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Post by iamahab on Aug 22, 2016 11:48:23 GMT
I still can't believe they had a problem with him having a side project, it's not like it would get in the way of their schedule of recording an album every 5+ years.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 12:31:28 GMT
I still can't believe they had a problem with him having a side project, it's not like it would get in the way of their schedule of recording an album every 5+ years. Well this was prehab Hetfield..... I think it was (as he has said in hindsight) the fear of his side projects taking away from Metallica. How far would Jason want to take it? Does he tour with it? Print t-shirts? And so on and so on....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 14:13:52 GMT
AWMH is about james' control problems, and is very telling about his relationship with jason and his side projects
he was afraid of losing jason to these side projects, he was afraid metallica would lose something, he was afraid he would lose something. pre-rehab james was a control freak. pretty sure he said something like this in an interview (the one where each member is sitting behind a coloured background. or a JITS clip,)
jason would still be in the band if he went along with therapy. as weak and lame as it was, it would have worked.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
^ this. I'm sure Jason regrets his decision now, although it did seem like not only the right, but the only thing he could do at the time.
Then again, maybe Echobrain was something fresh and new in 2001, but today I find it sounds exactly like a faceless million post-rock-electro-shoegaze-whatever bedroom artists on Youtube. A dead-end niche that has swallowed other good bands like The Gathering, but I digress
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Post by yepsure on Aug 22, 2016 20:56:22 GMT
I still can't believe they had a problem with him having a side project, it's not like it would get in the way of their schedule of recording an album every 5+ years. Again I'll point out that they didn't have a problem with Jason having a side project. He had a ton of them going back to the early 90's. The problem was that Jason wanted to turn one into a commercial venture, tour it, promote it, sell t-shirts as Jaysee said. Stickers with "Metallica's Jason Newsted" on the cover. Het was worried that would take away from Metallica, and was worried about Metallica's name being involved in something other than Metallica. He was worried that Metallica would seem weaker when people see that Jason was also in other professional band. They were fine with Jason creating music on the side, it's only when it could have hurt the Metallica name did Hetfield put up barriers. There are earlier examples of this happening - in 1995/96 when they were recording Load, an IR8 tape "leaked" to the radio, Hetfield lost it at Jason then too. Hetfield would be annoyed at Lars, when he would talk about drugs in the band during interviews as it was speaking for all of Metallica. Anything that could hurt the perceived strength of what Hetfield spent his life creating was a threat to him and he had to control and neutralise it.
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Post by Jayzon on Aug 23, 2016 7:53:51 GMT
Yeah. Hetfield seemed to be in a really vulnerable and insecure place at the time. Funny, really, seeing how his on-stage persona was that of an omnipotent macho god.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 9:16:27 GMT
Yeah. Hetfield seemed to be in a really vulnerable and insecure place at the time. Funny, really, seeing how his on-stage persona was that of an omnipotent macho god. Leather and metal was his uniform, protecting what he was.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 9:24:28 GMT
On the topic of JN's songwriting credits, I remember him saying in 1996 that he didn't care all songs were signed Hetfield/Ulrich, as long as they let him come up with his own bass lines. In that respect, he was contributing to arrangements. That's still better than Mustaine saying he sang the guitar solos to Marty Friedman hahaha.
In the rock music world, the term "writing" is vague as shit anyway and is mostly a misuse of the word. I mean, apart from classically trained guys like Randy Rhoads or Cliff Burton, who can actually read and write music in rock/metal? Where does "writing" end, where does "arrangement" start? Isn't it mostly band internal politics that define who "writes" and who doesn't?
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Post by Shadow Tag on Aug 23, 2016 17:41:26 GMT
It is very ambiguous and varies from band to band, but arrangement is part of writing. Writing is the umbrella term, synonymous with composing, creating (in this respect), etc.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 20:08:22 GMT
It is very ambiguous and varies from band to band, but arrangement is part of writing. Writing is the umbrella term, synonymous with composing, creating (in this respect), etc. As far as I know Lars doesn't "write" guitar riffs nor lyrics - he's definitely in the arrangement department then, yet he's on every song credit, so yep, slightly unfair to Jason in that respect... THough I'm sure he gets performing royalties from every album he played on.
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Post by yepsure on Aug 23, 2016 20:27:47 GMT
If we really think about it, Jason didn't really write all his own bass lines.
Bass lines that form the basis of an entire song were written by Hetfield. The God That Failed, Until It Sleeps, King Nothing, Devil's Dance, etc... And on the Black Album, you had Het and Lars watching over his shoulder while he was recording, telling him what to play.
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Post by Shadow Tag on Aug 23, 2016 21:44:25 GMT
Even simpler, it seems like just a matter of what comes first. If I'm a bassist and my guitarist writes a riff (let's assume for a 1-riff song, for argument's sake), which I then write bassline to, he'd usually get the credit. The song still came from him.
I'm pretty sure Jason has talked about Sleeps' bassline being his (he talked about how wonderfully it came together with the guitars), but if Hetfield wrote the guitar part and Jason wrote his bass to that, and then was told 'that should play by itself for the first couple measures', the song's creation and foundation still came from the guitar line.
So ultimately, the 'did he write his own bass parts/do his bass parts just mirror the guitar' argument is moot.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 11:36:18 GMT
The thing about heavy, distorded guitar riffs is that they leave little place for a bass guitar to bring melodic embellishment or rhythmic tweaks. Burton did, because he had more talent than Newsted in that department, but it takes listening to the isolated master tracks from Guitar Hero to actually get to hear that. So in the end both instruments have to play more or less in unison, so in that case I agree that it'll be whoever comes up first with the riff that will get the writing credit.
There's counter-examples though. Nearly all the early Sabbath songs are credited Iommi/Butler/Ward/Osbourne, although the creative process was a case of Butler, Ward and Obsourne getting blasted down the pub while waiting for Iommi to come up with riffs, to which everyone played in unison including the vocals (Iron Man). That's most likely because they had no clue about how the business worked at that point.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 15:29:04 GMT
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Post by Jayzon on Sept 1, 2016 18:06:31 GMT
That was a great listen. Really glad to hear from the man himself, and the way he told it, it all makes sense. Respect. It'd be really cool to hear some stuff from the Chophouse Band!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 15:28:59 GMT
That was a great listen. Really glad to hear from the man himself, and the way he told it, it all makes sense. Respect. It'd be really cool to hear some stuff from the Chophouse Band! Never knew his mum was sick and dying. Seems like her love for country music has influenced him with his current project.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 15:39:23 GMT
That was a great listen. Really glad to hear from the man himself, and the way he told it, it all makes sense. Respect. It'd be really cool to hear some stuff from the Chophouse Band! Never knew his mum was sick and dying. Seems like her love for country music has influenced him with his current project. Im sure it has nothing to do with the fact that country is the in thing right now.
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Post by yepsure on Sept 6, 2016 20:40:08 GMT
HR posted a video over on Judas, Jason actually sounds really good on the song. I enjoyed it.
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Post by lightning master on Sept 6, 2016 20:58:57 GMT
HR posted a video over on Judas, Jason actually sounds really good on the song. I enjoyed it. Wow, a Doug Seegers cover from all the stuff he can choose from?! The original is a great, great song which I was impressed by the first time I heard it. He got known in Sweden and likely to the rest of the world too through a Swedish TV show called Jills verandra (=Jill's porch) that takes place in Nashville. A Swedish singer named Jill Johnson (who lives in Nashville) invites famous Swedish artists to Nashville and lets them get to know the city and play a cover of a country song...at the same time it kinda teaches the viewer a little about the history of country as well. It's a really good show. Anyway, Doug Seegers was a homeless man who was busking in Nashville and when filming one of the episodes the production crew discovered him and decided to have him be a part of the episode. In the episode they (Jill and the guest Magnus Carlson) ask him to play something, and he starts playing...it sounds like an old country classic...he can't possibly have written that himself...but he has. It was Down to the river. In the episode he also gets to record the song in Johnny Cash's old studio, and after the episode has aired it gets released...and the word about him is definitely out in Sweden by that time, and he gets popular here instantly basically. After that he has done several tours in Sweden, and has gotten to release two or three albums so far and has also played (Down by the river) on Sweden's most popular music show (called Allsång på Skansen). He no longer is a homeless man and if the production crew of Jills verandra hadn't discovered him he may very well still have been, or even worse. It's a story too good to be true really.
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Post by yepsure on Sept 6, 2016 22:34:26 GMT
I think Jason's voice would be really suited to a cover of Motorhead's Whorehouse Blues.
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Post by Kimbo on Sept 7, 2016 7:38:34 GMT
Post the song here you lazy fuckers
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