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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 16:26:32 GMT
There is one big contradiction to the point you are trying to make in that photo. The fact that Kerry plays in a band where half the original members aren't white? Or American even?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 16:41:02 GMT
I'm willing to bet Kerry didn't even know what the fuck is going on on that shirt. It just looked edgy and rebellious to him. He ain't even from the south.
Rebel flag, cool, I'm a rebel!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 16:57:43 GMT
There is one big contradiction to the point you are trying to make in that photo. The fact that Kerry plays in a band where half the original members aren't white? Or American even? Ding ding ding!
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Post by Bartman on Jun 5, 2016 17:02:32 GMT
I'm just going to leave this here....... (Taken from my copy of the 1995 Headbanger's Ball Donington 1995 special) There is one big contradiction to the point you are trying to make in that photo. not necessarily: he may harbour bigoted views but lacks the awareness to note that some of his views suggest he not associate with many of those he does. or he could excuse his associates "ah, you're different to THEM" (whomever "them" are who are the focus of his bigotry). plus it should be said that literally (one would imagine anyway) everywhere outwith the US/North America/Euro Nazi circles tho even then sometimes, people of Hispanic origin are considered to be white as white gets, maybe that fella (is that K-Double from Slayer?) also thinks that. or he's a fucking idiot wearing a Bad Shirt. that'd be the best case, eh.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 17:17:34 GMT
Even if his entire band was black, the dubiousness of wearing a tshirt with a flag that represents slavery is very apparent. To me at least.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 18:59:42 GMT
Nazi SS Symbol Just saying.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 18:59:49 GMT
True. I don't think Kerry racist or that he wore the shirt with racist intent, he's just a massive idiot - nothing new there.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 19:00:48 GMT
By "true" I was referring to Jaysee's post. HR your trolling game is weak lately
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 19:05:00 GMT
Confirmed Nazi (oh no wait he's just interested in WW2 ).
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Post by Bartman on Jun 5, 2016 19:19:53 GMT
that's what i was thinking (hoping, i don't actually know anything about the man) but that shirt is baaaaaaaaaaaad (which obvs no one is disputing) and not smart.
(that directed at binge's post, idek what to think re lemmy but that's DODGY AF too)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 19:39:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 19:51:17 GMT
Lol
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 20:06:09 GMT
inb4 jason saluting during am i evil
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Post by iamahab on Jun 5, 2016 21:56:22 GMT
"I only collect the stuff, not the ideas" - Lemmy
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Post by yepsure on Jun 5, 2016 23:05:10 GMT
Also what's with the iron cross everywhere. The Iron Cross is not a Nazi symbol. I suggest doing some reading on history. Also, Lemmy had a passionate interest in history and Nazi Germany (as do I), and built a huge collection of historic items from WW2 and the Nazi Germany era. He also liked some of the symbols uniforms and imagery the Nazis used - purely from an aesthetic point of view, not for what the NSDAP party stood for.
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Post by yepsure on Jun 5, 2016 23:08:53 GMT
Even if his entire band was black, the dubiousness of wearing a tshirt with a flag that represents slavery is very apparent. To me at least. Sorry Jase, I disagree. The flag doesn't represent slavery.
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Post by Bartman on Jun 6, 2016 1:20:56 GMT
Soz, history lesson hank, but due to that flag's association with the Confederacy, it is in turn v.much associated with slavery and white supremacy :)
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Post by yepsure on Jun 6, 2016 3:48:11 GMT
Soz, history lesson hank, but due to that flag's association with the Confederacy, it is in turn v.much associated with slavery and white supremacy :) Incorrectly associated with, perhaps, but certainly not representative of.
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Post by R2D2 on Jun 6, 2016 8:53:00 GMT
Yeah, pretty sure the Bundeswehr still uses the iron cross.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 12:46:28 GMT
Also what's with the iron cross everywhere. The Iron Cross is not a Nazi symbol. I suggest doing some reading on history. It's used alot in white pride stuff these days.
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Post by Bartman on Jun 6, 2016 13:09:31 GMT
the iron cross thing is odd. james must be really into his prussian military history (why not have it on a guitar, eh?) or really into the aesthetic? tho, ofc, it is not an aesthetic without its own history. i mean if his ancestors were awarded it or he has a lineage including those who served under the prussian military, then it's okay...i guess? maybe he's secretly a german/prussian nationalist, who even knows. maybe he collects stuff too. also just 'cause a military uses it doesn't mean that it isn't maybe somewhat dodgy, ffs. Incorrectly associated with, perhaps, but certainly not representative of. i wouldn't argue that it is incorrectly associated with slavery but i appreciate where you are coming from (i think). that said, to immediately go to *that* place, the swastika isn't straight up representative of genocide/holocaust and anti-semitism but due to its associations with, y'know, the NSDAP, it isn't recommended that white people go around wearing it on a shirt, ffs.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 13:30:11 GMT
I agree, why associate yourself with something which could be interpreted as being Fascist in the first place. It just doesn't make sense unless it's deliberate.
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Post by ford71V8 on Jun 6, 2016 13:37:07 GMT
I just figured James' link was more about the custom rids and bike scene
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Post by Bartman on Jun 6, 2016 13:46:38 GMT
yeah, i actually totally forgot about that of course the symbolism is still there (and idk why that community uses the symbol, it again could just be the aesthetic!) tho it's probs not not related to appeals to lebensraum and german supremacy. i do go w/ HR tho that associating oneself with symbolism that can suggest fascism or racism or w/e isn't too smart. there is a difference between the iron cross (i think) and the swastika (in a european/american context) and the confederate flag/flags with the confederate saltire tbf (i think).
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Post by yepsure on Jun 6, 2016 20:35:38 GMT
the iron cross thing is odd. james must be really into his prussian military history (why not have it on a guitar, eh?) or really into the aesthetic? tho, ofc, it is not an aesthetic without its own history. i mean if his ancestors were awarded it or he has a lineage including those who served under the prussian military, then it's okay...i guess? maybe he's secretly a german/prussian nationalist, who even knows. maybe he collects stuff too. also just 'cause a military uses it doesn't mean that it isn't maybe somewhat dodgy, ffs. It's not odd at all, it's widely used in the custom car and bike scene. There is no rational reason for you to think it's dodgy. Sure, you remember seeing photos with some Nazi's having Iron Cross medals on their uniform, I get it. But it wasn't invented or repurposed or tarnished by the Nazi's. It has nothing to do with German/Prussian nationalism. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Crossi wouldn't argue that it is incorrectly associated with slavery but i appreciate where you are coming from (i think). that said, to immediately go to *that* place, the swastika isn't straight up representative of genocide/holocaust and anti-semitism but due to its associations with, y'know, the NSDAP, it isn't recommended that white people go around wearing it on a shirt, ffs. The swastika is completely different - yes, the Nazi's didn't invent it, but it was chosen as the logo representing one of the cruelest governments in the world, responsible for millions of deaths.
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Post by yepsure on Jun 6, 2016 20:39:16 GMT
I agree, why associate yourself with something which could be interpreted as being Fascist in the first place. It just doesn't make sense unless it's deliberate. Of course it's deliberate. Whenever someone calls them a Nazi, Racist or Fascist, they get the opportunity to correct and educate them. Hopefully that person will then go and look up the history of the symbols and learn something.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 21:51:40 GMT
guys, the nazis wore trousers. i dunno about you but im putting all my trousers in the bin asap!
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Post by Bartman on Jun 6, 2016 23:12:01 GMT
It's not odd at all, it's widely used in the custom car and bike scene. There is no rational reason for you to think it's dodgy. Sure, you remember seeing photos with some Nazi's having Iron Cross medals on their uniform, I get it. But it wasn't invented or repurposed or tarnished by the Nazi's. It has nothing to do with German/Prussian nationalism. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_CrossThe swastika is completely different - yes, the Nazi's didn't invent it, but it was chosen as the logo representing one of the cruelest governments in the world, responsible for millions of deaths. hey, i read that wiki article too! and thank you for educating me, a white boy from eastern scotland, about custom car and bike scenes in the western united states! i am sorry you had to do that! pray tell, could you tell me why they appropriate the iron cross for their aesthetic? is it purely because of its aesthetic style or is there a meaning behind it? pls do not tell me how or where i saw iron crosses, yeppy darling, i've spent a great deal of my education studying german and prussian history xoxo i actually did not say it was repurposed or anything by the nazis, literally just that it can have connotations of prussian/german nationalism (certainly as recently as the 1930s (y'know) and as far back as the teutonic order: idk what happens these days, i'm not down with the reactionary youth). i also said it could represent some ancestral importance, y'know, being german and all that. tbf depending on who you ask and where you are, that flag and its symbolism actually might not be that different to the swastika. history doesn't just happen in europe, to europeans. y'dig?
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Post by yepsure on Jun 6, 2016 23:38:04 GMT
and thank you for educating me, a white boy from eastern scotland, about custom car and bike scenes in the western united states! i am sorry you had to do that! pray tell, could you tell me why they appropriate the iron cross for their aesthetic? is it purely because of its aesthetic style or is there a meaning behind it? pls do not tell me how or where i saw iron crosses, yeppy darling, i've spent a great deal of my education studying german and prussian history xoxo i actually did not say it was repurposed or anything by the nazis, literally just that it can have connotations of prussian/german nationalism (certainly as recently as the 1930s (y'know) and as far back as the teutonic order: idk what happens these days, i'm not down with the reactionary youth). i also said it could represent some ancestral importance, y'know, being german and all that. tbf depending on who you ask and where you are, that flag and its symbolism actually might not be that different to the swastika. history doesn't just happen in europe, to europeans. y'dig? The Iron Cross isn't just used in the car/bike scene in the United States, it's used world wide. It's also pretty popular in surf/skater culture. If you've studied this part of European history, I fail to understand why you believe the Iron Cross could/should be seen as an offensive symbol representative of Nazi Germany. It's like you're disregarding historic fact to suit your own preconceptions. I can sympathise with those that don't understand the history of the symbol associating it with Nazi Germany - they don't know better, but someone who has researched and been educated in the topic, should. And yeah, a flag/Iron Cross/whatever can represent different things to different people - the difference is whether they know the history behind it and what is means and actually represents.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2016 10:45:58 GMT
and thank you for educating me, a white boy from eastern scotland, about custom car and bike scenes in the western united states! i am sorry you had to do that! pray tell, could you tell me why they appropriate the iron cross for their aesthetic? is it purely because of its aesthetic style or is there a meaning behind it? pls do not tell me how or where i saw iron crosses, yeppy darling, i've spent a great deal of my education studying german and prussian history xoxo i actually did not say it was repurposed or anything by the nazis, literally just that it can have connotations of prussian/german nationalism (certainly as recently as the 1930s (y'know) and as far back as the teutonic order: idk what happens these days, i'm not down with the reactionary youth). i also said it could represent some ancestral importance, y'know, being german and all that. tbf depending on who you ask and where you are, that flag and its symbolism actually might not be that different to the swastika. history doesn't just happen in europe, to europeans. y'dig? The Iron Cross isn't just used in the car/bike scene in the United States, it's used world wide. It's also pretty popular in surf/skater culture. If you've studied this part of European history, I fail to understand why you believe the Iron Cross could/should be seen as an offensive symbol representative of Nazi Germany. It's like you're disregarding historic fact to suit your own preconceptions. I can sympathise with those that don't understand the history of the symbol associating it with Nazi Germany - they don't know better, but someone who has researched and been educated in the topic, should. And yeah, a flag/Iron Cross/whatever can represent different things to different people - the difference is whether they know the history behind it and what is means and actually represents. The history of the Swastika: Does that mean it's ok to endorse the Swastika?
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