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Post by BMus1 on Jul 9, 2020 14:02:25 GMT
That's true, but he has definitely improved those issues starting in 2012. They started gradually slowing stuff down a hair and he brought the fills back a bit too. I want to think playing with all of those musicians for the 30th anniversary motivated him to get his playing into shape, because that Prague 2012 show where they played TBA in full for the first time sounds great on his part.
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Post by Ruflux on Jul 10, 2020 11:57:06 GMT
Anyway, drumming chat aside, I'm very pleased they picked this show for a redone mix for Metallica Mondays. I remember discovering it years ago and being really surprised since I didn't really expect much from 2007 Metallica, but the mix was alright and more importantly the performances were (mostly) on point. James had an unusual, almost throwback to the 90s attitude in this show, randomly swearing and sort of forcing his voice out as if his life depended on it. Sure, probably not very healthy or a good idea in the long run and he did admittedly sound a bit weak when he had to go up higher while trying to retain that rasp, but it's still cool to me as a one-off performance.
Hell, listening to the whole show now I finally even discovered a modern performance of Unforgiven that I like. James is still pretty nasally in the chorus, but everything else works. The only real sore spot I found was Lars getting too excessive with the fills during the solo. Similarly, Orion was pretty solid and Lars wasn't too obnoxious with fills so that's another on my list of good takes of songs I rarely listen to the live versions of.
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Post by jackers on Jul 10, 2020 12:56:49 GMT
I tried listening to that unforgiven. Nope. Not for me. Sorry I just can't get through unforgiven performance post 90s.
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Post by BMus1 on Jul 13, 2020 13:08:31 GMT
7/22/94 tonight! I'm so hyped there's been so many more pre-HTSD shows than I was expecting. I was thinking they would mostly be sourcing from the last few years, so these shows have been a huge treat. I don't really know a lot about '94 besides Lars downsizing his kit and the band slowing down a little tempo-wise, so I'm excited to listen.
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Post by jackers on Jul 13, 2020 14:41:34 GMT
Yay Disposable Heroes with Jason!
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Post by FightFireWithStAnger on Jul 13, 2020 16:29:28 GMT
7/22/94 tonight! I'm so hyped there's been so many more pre-HTSD shows than I was expecting. I was thinking they would mostly be sourcing from the last few years, so these shows have been a huge treat. I don't really know a lot about '94 besides Lars downsizing his kit and the band slowing down a little tempo-wise, so I'm excited to listen. '94 was the first year they de-tuned to Eb from Standard, or maybe that was '95? |
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Post by lightning master on Jul 13, 2020 16:33:49 GMT
7/22/94 tonight! I'm so hyped there's been so many more pre-HTSD shows than I was expecting. I was thinking they would mostly be sourcing from the last few years, so these shows have been a huge treat. I don't really know a lot about '94 besides Lars downsizing his kit and the band slowing down a little tempo-wise, so I'm excited to listen. '94 was the first year they de-tuned to Eb from Standard, or maybe that was '95? That was '95. |
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Post by yepsure on Jul 13, 2020 22:01:08 GMT
Yay Disposable Heroes with Jason! But from memory it was all chopped up, shortened and shitty during this era. |
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Post by jackers on Jul 13, 2020 23:43:22 GMT
I don't care. It has "Bred to kill, not to care" part sung double voices which is awesome.
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Post by yepsure on Jul 14, 2020 1:05:43 GMT
Disposable is on right now, and sorry but it's awful compared to say 2013 or 2019 performances. The song is all chopped up, Het with not a single moment of grit or power in his vocals, and Jason screaming over the top.
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Post by lightning master on Jul 14, 2020 1:33:54 GMT
Disposable is on right now, and sorry but it's awful compared to say 2013 or 2019 performances. The song is all chopped up, Het with not a single moment of grit or power in his vocals, and Jason screaming over the top. I liked it. |
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Post by jackers on Jul 14, 2020 1:38:43 GMT
Yea Hets vocals were really fragile on this show. It had to be all the wear and tear from crazy 91-93 touring. But Jason's backups eleveted it for me. And I'm sorry but I'm not the one that is going to put those mythical 2013 or any modern performences on the pedestal.
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Post by yepsure on Jul 14, 2020 2:02:04 GMT
What's mythical about them? Not sure anyone can say the 1994 version of Disposable Heroes is better/stronger than the performances in 2013 or 2019. I think it's just one of those songs that sound better now than it did then, by a large margin.
Anyway, this 1994 show had an great version of Fade. The double neck makes it...but all Fade performances from the 1990s are so good, much better than the modern era IMO. A song that's completely opposite to my statement above.
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Post by BMus1 on Jul 14, 2020 4:19:43 GMT
What's mythical about them? Not sure anyone can say the 1994 version of Disposable Heroes is better/stronger than the performances in 2013 or 2019. I think it's just one of those songs that sound better now than it did then, by a large margin. Anyway, this 1994 show had an great version of Fade. The double neck makes it...but all Fade performances from the 1990s are so good, much better than the modern era IMO. A song that's completely opposite to my statement above. Agreed. No amount of Jason backing vocals (Rob's kill it on Dispy nowadays btw) can fix how they played that song in the 90s. Fade on the other hand is awful with the acoustic; that should be reserved exclusively for Unforgiven. Also the Kill/Ride medley was a terrible idea. Justice Medley = Cool, and I could see them doing a DM one (I think I came up with one way back in the day and Mark Moderus totally appeased me on there by cutting it together with the stems) because it's so riff driven. But KEA and RTL are so much more song/progression driven than the single riffs. |
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Post by Ruflux on Jul 14, 2020 11:09:35 GMT
7/22/94 tonight! I'm so hyped there's been so many more pre-HTSD shows than I was expecting. I was thinking they would mostly be sourcing from the last few years, so these shows have been a huge treat. I don't really know a lot about '94 besides Lars downsizing his kit and the band slowing down a little tempo-wise, so I'm excited to listen. Funny, I always remember '94 as the year when Lars had three chinas in his kit. Seriously, count 'em. I never really understood why but there they are.
Anyway, it's definitely cool from the perspective of being a strange transition period for the band. A lot of the visual image and attitude is still rooted in the Black Album era (including Lars's downsized kit which I believe is most of his Black Album kit with a new floor tom) but with a hint at what's to come with Load and onwards. In '95 they were already a pretty different band attitude and equipment wise (no more double-neck Explorer for Fade to Black) but '94 still feels connected to the Black Album tour despite not being a part of it.
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Post by BMus1 on Jul 14, 2020 13:34:45 GMT
7/22/94 tonight! I'm so hyped there's been so many more pre-HTSD shows than I was expecting. I was thinking they would mostly be sourcing from the last few years, so these shows have been a huge treat. I don't really know a lot about '94 besides Lars downsizing his kit and the band slowing down a little tempo-wise, so I'm excited to listen. Funny, I always remember '94 as the year when Lars had three chinas in his kit. Seriously, count 'em. I never really understood why but there they are.
Anyway, it's definitely cool from the perspective of being a strange transition period for the band. A lot of the visual image and attitude is still rooted in the Black Album era (including Lars's downsized kit which I believe is most of his Black Album kit with a new floor tom) but with a hint at what's to come with Load and onwards. In '95 they were already a pretty different band attitude and equipment wise (no more double-neck Explorer for Fade to Black) but '94 still feels connected to the Black Album tour despite not being a part of it.
100% agree. It's like you cookie cuttered together the two eras and '94 was the result. James' voice was obviously at the forefront of his mind though. I don't think it was necessarily worn, but he was probably very weary about it after probably feeling like garbage once the black album tour finished and they had some time off. I can't imagine how shredded his throat was. Tuning down was a good move for them.
He has two chinas now but Jesus Christ he had a third one in place of one of his main crash cymbals?  |
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Post by FightFireWithStAnger on Jul 14, 2020 17:17:26 GMT
Funny, I always remember '94 as the year when Lars had three chinas in his kit. Seriously, count 'em. I never really understood why but there they are.
Anyway, it's definitely cool from the perspective of being a strange transition period for the band. A lot of the visual image and attitude is still rooted in the Black Album era (including Lars's downsized kit which I believe is most of his Black Album kit with a new floor tom) but with a hint at what's to come with Load and onwards. In '95 they were already a pretty different band attitude and equipment wise (no more double-neck Explorer for Fade to Black) but '94 still feels connected to the Black Album tour despite not being a part of it.
100% agree. It's like you cookie cuttered together the two eras and '94 was the result. James' voice was obviously at the forefront of his mind though. I don't think it was necessarily worn, but he was probably very weary about it after probably feeling like garbage once the black album tour finished and they had some time off. I can't imagine how shredded his throat was. Tuning down was a good move for them.
He has two chinas now but Jesus Christ he had a third one in place of one of his main crash cymbals? Yeah he had two on his right for some reason. You can see it on this picture. He has an obsession with it for some reason.
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Post by Ruflux on Jul 14, 2020 21:19:23 GMT
100% agree. It's like you cookie cuttered together the two eras and '94 was the result. James' voice was obviously at the forefront of his mind though. I don't think it was necessarily worn, but he was probably very weary about it after probably feeling like garbage once the black album tour finished and they had some time off. I can't imagine how shredded his throat was. Tuning down was a good move for them.
He has two chinas now but Jesus Christ he had a third one in place of one of his main crash cymbals? Yeah he had two on his right for some reason. You can see it on this picture. He has an obsession with it for some reason.
The funny thing is, I was pretty convinced he basically didn't even use the rear-most one from the videos of this tour that I've seen. Until today, that is, because he actually hits both in quick succession in the intro to Breadfan.
Anyway, it's not actually in place of any of the crashes, thankfully (he's still got three to his right here). The extra china is just kind of awkwardly hovering over them. That's what makes it so weird to me. It just seems like an afterthought and the two up there look to be about the same and certainly don't sound much different.
Oh yeah and despite having three of them, Lars was still remarkably restrained with his chinas in '94. Just hits for effects here and there, didn't really use them as a ride, didn't even spam it over the double bass section in FFWF. I wish we could return to that.
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Post by FightFireWithStAnger on Jul 14, 2020 21:42:51 GMT
Yeah he had two on his right for some reason. You can see it on this picture. He has an obsession with it for some reason.
The funny thing is, I was pretty convinced he basically didn't even use the rear-most one from the videos of this tour that I've seen. Until today, that is, because he actually hits both in quick succession in the intro to Breadfan.
Anyway, it's not actually in place of any of the crashes, thankfully (he's still got three to his right here). The extra china is just kind of awkwardly hovering over them. That's what makes it so weird to me. It just seems like an afterthought and the two up there look to be about the same and certainly don't sound much different.
Oh yeah and despite having three of them, Lars was still remarkably restrained with his chinas in '94. Just hits for effects here and there, didn't really use them as a ride, didn't even spam it over the double bass section in FFWF. I wish we could return to that.
I have a sneaking suspicion that was the drum tech's doing. Even in his current set-up I don't get. The only time he uses the one all the way to his right, he uses just to hang between or count in songs. What's even crazier is that in the mid-80s he had two china's on each side. I don't know. Metallica's songs pre-Death Magnetic doesn't have too much china in it so I don't get why he needs two different sounding china's at this point. One would do just fine, but how should I know. |
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Post by BMus1 on Jul 14, 2020 23:19:59 GMT
I think his far right china is a thing he has just to have. He uses it occasionally for accents and it does have a different tone. Not that it matters too too much for Lars's style of bashing it mostly, but it definitely does give it a unique look for himself.
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Post by Ruflux on Jul 15, 2020 11:19:07 GMT
I have a sneaking suspicion that was the drum tech's doing. Even in his current set-up I don't get. The only time he uses the one all the way to his right, he uses just to hang between or count in songs. What's even crazier is that in the mid-80s he had two china's on each side. I don't know. Metallica's songs pre-Death Magnetic doesn't have too much china in it so I don't get why he needs two different sounding china's at this point. One would do just fine, but how should I know. The two opposite side chinas thing was definitely an 80s thing but also possibly Lars being a bit of a fanboy. Nicko McBrain of Iron Maiden used to also have two chinas on either side mostly behind him (and a third one, lower and more accessible to his right too) that he really mostly played during song endings and one or two intros, standing up. Lars is a fan so it'd make sense he wanted to copy that setup in the 80s.
It's almost remarkable to me that Lars has scaled down his setup to close to the bare minimum and still has two chinas to this day and no ride. Fair enough, he probably wouldn't use it much but if he had a dark ride like on the St. Anger sessions in place of his low china, he could easily spam it all day long and it wouldn't sound nearly as tiresome as the china does. It'd also be more versatile since he could actually play it quietly while hitting closer to the bell to make it sound more like a typical ride.
But yeah, I guess that's just Lars's style. I just can't really wrap my head around not having the most basic cymbal that exists in your setup at all. Mind-boggling. But then again I'm the one who's commenting on it on an obscure internet forum while he plays in front of audiences ranked in the tens of thousands on the regular.
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Post by SicJes on Jul 15, 2020 12:36:11 GMT
If he had an endorsement deal to play on one China, maybe having 3 in his set up meant 3× the 💸. LOL. How many Lars fanboys ran out and bought three China's just cause 😜
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Post by BMus1 on Jul 15, 2020 17:16:28 GMT
If I hit lotto one of the first things I'd do is accurately re-create Lars's drum kit**, so he's doing something right.
**the 2008 version with the ride cymbal hidden underneath the china for when they played Bleeding Me and Until It Sleeps again for a hot second
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Post by BMus1 on Jul 15, 2020 17:24:06 GMT
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Post by FightFireWithStAnger on Jul 16, 2020 1:18:44 GMT
I have a sneaking suspicion that was the drum tech's doing. Even in his current set-up I don't get. The only time he uses the one all the way to his right, he uses just to hang between or count in songs. What's even crazier is that in the mid-80s he had two china's on each side. I don't know. Metallica's songs pre-Death Magnetic doesn't have too much china in it so I don't get why he needs two different sounding china's at this point. One would do just fine, but how should I know. The two opposite side chinas thing was definitely an 80s thing but also possibly Lars being a bit of a fanboy. Nicko McBrain of Iron Maiden used to also have two chinas on either side mostly behind him (and a third one, lower and more accessible to his right too) that he really mostly played during song endings and one or two intros, standing up. Lars is a fan so it'd make sense he wanted to copy that setup in the 80s.
It's almost remarkable to me that Lars has scaled down his setup to close to the bare minimum and still has two chinas to this day and no ride. Fair enough, he probably wouldn't use it much but if he had a dark ride like on the St. Anger sessions in place of his low china, he could easily spam it all day long and it wouldn't sound nearly as tiresome as the china does. It'd also be more versatile since he could actually play it quietly while hitting closer to the bell to make it sound more like a typical ride.
But yeah, I guess that's just Lars's style. I just can't really wrap my head around not having the most basic cymbal that exists in your setup at all. Mind-boggling. But then again I'm the one who's commenting on it on an obscure internet forum while he plays in front of audiences ranked in the tens of thousands on the regular.
Yeah now that you mention it, I think this whole setup in general until he downscaled it was a fanboy kit because he talked to Neil Peart when he got endorsed so I have a feeling he probably took notes of what Neil and all those guys had and put it into his kit. You're right though, there are different types of rides he could use that I think would fit the sound. At the same time he probably could tell Zildjian to make him a ride/china hybrid hahaha. |
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Post by Zalman on Jul 17, 2020 18:28:42 GMT
I never realized how weird this setlist is. |
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Post by BMus1 on Jul 20, 2020 13:30:40 GMT
Gimme a late May/Early June 2008 show, a 2003 show, a MOP 20th anniversary show, and one of those 1995 shows and I'll be floored. Check one, check two. 6/6/06 tonight! I remember watching the shitty rips of The New Song from this show when I was 13 years old.
Since the band has listened to me arguably too much, my new wish list is Bremen 2004, a 2003 show **with The Unnamed Feeling**, 9/12/08 (DM release show), and a 1995 show still. Even though that '94 one was still a killer look into that transition period.
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Post by Ruflux on Jul 20, 2020 16:41:25 GMT
I was going to suggest maybe one of the Garage Inc. promo shows since while we have one pro-shot from New York, the audio quality's kinda crap for a lot of the songs. But then again a bunch were released as single B-sides (with Randy Staub's mixes) and none of the songs with bad audio are particularly rare covers IIRC, so eh.
Might as well wish for something that has none of those advantages, like the DM release show since the LiveMet mix is probably not all that great. Also, releasing the '98 version of Killing Time in today's climate would be extremely unwise, so there's that too.
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Post by BMus1 on Jul 20, 2020 16:44:35 GMT
This one’s more abstract, but I’d love the earliest show they have with a multitrack, mixed by Greg instead of just cleaned up.
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Post by SicJes on Jul 20, 2020 16:50:53 GMT
Also, releasing the '98 version of Killing Time in today's climate would be extremely unwise, so there's that too. ? Please elaborate. |
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